The Curious Connection Between Sex, Energy, and Stagnation

Prepare yourself for honest conversations about abortion, mental health, and whether society’s obsession with perfection is destroying us. Whether you're a mom, a future mom, or just someone trying to navigate the chaos, this episode offers eye-opening insights, measured doses of humor, and a reminder that we’re all just trying to pour from a full cup. 

Perfect for those questioning their life choices or craving a community that gets it〜 you'll want to listen to the end, because it’s real, relatable, and desperately needed. Your spiritual, cultural, and emotional GPS has arrived. 

Hit play and remember: you’re not alone in the chaos〜and yes, sometimes laughing through the storm is the best therapy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Let's get straight into it. So thank you for listening. Happy listening. Stay motivated. Even if I'm the toughest girl, I know I'm tough.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Hi everyone, my name is Ntako, or Sue, for those that prefer. Sue. Sabangwani, and um from South Africa. We hope you enjoy our conversations. May they be informative, empowering to those it empowers, and may everyone find themselves within everything we discuss. And uh of course, comment for those who do want to know something which they may not understand, where certain cultures are concerned and how we do things.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

I am super excited to start to dive uh a little bit deeper into the theme. Um even though this episode, I mean, might just be a squirrel, but that's that's what it's about. Um I'm super keen to hear from the two of you how it is to be a mom, uh especially in today's society, especially when your kids are throwing the sticks you. Um what it is to have a baby daddy, the different generation, culture, um, the trauma that you bring into the relationship with being a mom. And how do you speak to your like child about if they have questions about their dad, um, even though they experience different um feelings and um different experiences with the dad than they have with you in separate houses. So I'm super keen to hear what you ladies have to say.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

So much of what we think separates us culturally in South Africa, actually in the world, but also in South Africa, because we have 11 different languages and so many different cultural traditions in terms of how you deal with everything, whether it's birth, death, changes, whatever, everything that happens in between. There's so much alignment with it if you actually just dig a little bit under the surface. And it's not like this is so beyond anything I understand, but it's because I was telling him so that I went to the exact same cleansing protocol, right? With um someone I was in a relationship with as well. And I didn't go to Sangoma, I went to uh if it was also a white person, but she was uh she called herself a healer, so it's the same thing, it's exactly the same thing. Um person's solid or with you because you've had a sexual relationship or removed from you, and vice versa. And when you are going through the ceremony, that you are cleansing him and feeding them and giving him back to that person, but it's not about returning everything back to them broken or vice versa, that you are you cleanse it, you heal it, you make sure that everything's intact, and you say, I want all of your pieces to go back to you, and I want my pieces to remain within me, and I don't want any more of your soul ties and whatever was affecting you and getting all the things you were dealing with, your energy to be still in my sphere, basically. So it also sounds like fruit-free stuff for a lot of people, but I believe in it completely because I think that so much energy can sit with you, no, hold you down, stagnate you for a long time after you have been in a success. That's an emotionally volatile and a toxic employer, the people you've dealt with in an environment in the workspace, field of you know, some people would call it an aura, other than you guys and your angels. African people say it's your ancestors who are involved in the whole business. Like it actually doesn't matter. It's the spirit that you don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

I think also like that statement of who you surround yourself with events. I think to be able to realize who you surround yourself with and connect with, um, you first need to become aware. And to become aware, you need to go through the spiritual type of situation so that you can open like your third eye. Some people will refer to that as well. But that awakening feeling, you know, you look at everything that's around you and you think, you know, kind of where am I where am I at? And then that's like part to like get up and reintroduce yourself or find something new. And I think that's like also it's uh a snake that's getting off that type of dead skin and feeling some new skin, and it's just natural new habits that you have to get into yourself and then I think slowly also forgive yourself. But also the Tom, you made like a point there about are you the person that decides if you're gonna be like giving the real aspect? Like you left you, like this, it's nothing I can do. Like, I also can't understand it type of thing, but you like soften it, you know, from an I don't know, like a very soft, empathetic sheltering as a person would label it. I don't know, like words sound so hard, I don't know really how to but you know what I mean? The good on the side.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

I think that also depends on the kind of person that you are, your emotional maturity and soul maturity. I think souls are like they can be baby somewhere in the middle and they can be mature souls. You know when people speak about old souls, so someone is an old soul, like it's not this is not their first rodeousness already. This might be like your your second to last or your third to last rodeo because of being in the physical realm. Some people can't handle that, and it and would be like, I think a baby soul in that situation would be like, I'm going to make sure that this child knows everything that's disgusting about this human being, so that their relationship is destroyed. But actually, that means you're trying to play God because the relationship of your child with the other parent and my my other parent is not in my sphere anymore. Yes, I don't have control over that. I know that I don't have control over that. I think somebody who is maybe it's not their first it is their first rodeo, their sole purpose in this life is to make sure that their child knows how useless that parent has been in their life. But I've I don't know, I think we believe, and also because I think my mom did it to me with my dad. She could have said so many horrible things to throughout his life, and everything that she dealt with in his marriage, like she's over him or she doesn't want him in his face. She'd never got on about your dad's a complete alcoholic. I'm not gonna let you spend time with him. Being an alcoholic, I think about it, but they were boomies for real, they didn't even care.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

The boomies were it was the tough generation, hey, like having five children, giving half of them away, they were alcoholics, draggies, no seed bulbs, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Smoking in drug yeah, I remember imagining if he called both of my parents when I has chronic sinusitis, chronic, and it's because you smoke in the parlance because you smoke it. If someone said that to me now, oh my god, oh my god, I'm I'm very clear in Patsy Michael's health, like something about it. The boomers were built differently, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

They were built differently, and that's why the millennials were built differently.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Yeah, I think we're lost like 1980 to 1983, are the last years because we're not we don't fit into the millennial or the boomer, uh the boomer phase between what do you think? The last generation friendly we lost. Someone was saying that we don't fit in like in that 1989 to 1983. It doesn't matter. I'll I'll find my space, I'll find my group. I mean, I think that's also why I have friends who are so much younger than me. She does, for example. And I can also have friends who are in their 60s, in their 50s, and their 60s, I can still get on with them.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah, it's because you have a free spirit, right? And you know, you're not rigid to one specific category.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Where you have to choose a person specifically to age. For me, if your energy works for me and we can relate, whether you're young, whether you're old, whether you're in the middle, I don't know. I'd rather be with someone whose energy that I can be free in because they're also free, other than someone who's gonna weigh me down because we're in the same category. So that's why I always trust my energy more than anything else. I know I know if if I didn't get along with her today, I would have known from the start. You understand my point. It's just those people you know that I know because Candace said so, you so. Whereas if that's not how we work, most probably I would have said no.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

And do you ever get that? Um do you ever get that feeling when you meet someone for the first time? It's happened a lot because I've started a new job. So I've seen people for the first time a lot. I've never met this person, but I've never seen their face before. It happens a lot for me with men, their sexual energy comes forward quickly. I see it almost instantly.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

When a man, when a man is sexually interested, maybe as a woman. Why does that happen? Why does it happen? But the same, but but the same with women as well. I'll meet a woman and others.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

I can't be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Like when she comes, the way she comes at you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

And then I shut my down, I shut myself down. I think sometimes I can do it and I can go but extreme with that as well, like for people, including my partner. And they can't share that energy, then they shut down, and then I get then I feel almost embarrassed. Shame. I thought, and then I'm oh god, I've share too much with this person. But now I feel sometimes when I meet someone that I go on my guard a little bit more, you know, and then I and then I'm I can be very professional, don't you? I can very much put the mask on. I think it can be a bit extreme. People say that to me sometimes. Oh, I thought you were a complete bitch, and I'm sometimes when people say that to me, I'm such an insecure, like person who just wants to share my whole life story with you and for you to accept me and be a killer friends. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

You know what that says sorry, why a woman always being perceived as the bitch? There was actually Paris Paris Hilton. She, I don't know if you guys have seen how she's come out and she's got this deeper voice, and she's saying that's her show. And then I was listening to her podcast where she said that um that exactly what you're referring to is that why immediately when I'm saying no in a business decision and I'm just being entertaining and being all charismatic and to do business, it's immediately discomfort and bitch and uh look at her type of thing. Still in spirit offices.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

You know what I I realized also is that society doesn't boundaries when it does, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

And when they don't do, when the male doesn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yes, the boundaries is a big problem, and even in just from a general perspective, it becomes a problem. Now you're a problem, you know. Now it's because I've decided to put a boundary, you have an issue with it because it doesn't suit you. So that's what I realized. And when you have boundaries, you're going to unless it suits them.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

I will go back to this new job because I've had to be a boss pitch more than I want in this new job, right? Two people resigned in like December, right? So it's the month we paid bonuses meeting, where it was like it's obvious that he like sees me only as a sexual object. You know that's good. So and I was like sitting in this meeting and I was like, I'll be waffling about this is my end date, blah blah blah. I need submitted my resignation on this day, it should still be eligible. And I just said, sorry, hold on. Can you just can I can I say something from a from a policy perspective? From a policy and a process perspective. Just to say that if you're in your resignation mind, you're not eligible for a bonus. So the fact that you are only going to leave in January doesn't mean doesn't mean anything. Because you submitted your resignation, that means you have no intention to remain. That means that your bonus is a retention strategy that the business supplies to you, and it means you're not going to retain you, therefore, we're not going to pay your bonus. And I was like, very fair about that. I was obviously in that case. Which place do we love? I was obviously in the isolation case because I didn't care. I was just like, listen, this is a story. We're not bustling about this between us. Mr. Man, he's the sexual energy management trip still in the corner. Not he didn't say anything, he's just watching me. This guy, I thought he was gonna come back also because he was an African man, right? Not just what this new white puppy that's come in, he's never seen me before in his whole life. I'm telling you, I thought I had a bonus. And he was like, This is a story. So these are your options. I gave him two options, right? So I was like, this is your option. Your option is that you resign immediately today, and you can you'll be paid until the end of the month because you don't need you anymore. Or that you say for your whole resume, your whole uh period, but you're still not gonna get a bonus, right? So there's a you know which one which one do you want? And you said, I mean, if you put it that way, obviously I'm gonna take the first option so I can leave today and go on holiday and in December, my life away. Obviously, that's what he was thinking. But I had the same conversation twice, and like I realized that this person, this man, the mate, the manager man who had given me the sexual energy bath was he before he before he thought he thought of me only as that, and in that situation, the boundary in place was like one cost you're on this line. Because then I must have about this thing, right? So that's a classic example of where that rule suited him because he didn't want to have to pay those people bonuses. Now this woman's strength in this situation, or this woman's boundary in this situation, has resulted in an outcome that I I want. But in a situation where that would have been him, him, me talking to him, yeah, because of the way he already perceived me, he would have been, he probably would have been laughing at me. I'll take you to the cleaners, take you to the labor tribunal, you know, like ever it is. Yeah. I remember sitting in that meeting and I totally agree with that. If I was a man, I'd just be sitting here going, you know, is it's my way or the highway or it's policy or nothing. In fact, all the scenarios in here the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Like when um, I mean, you feel like just you know, working the streets, you know, going to the shops, and now what's currently happening is in the Netherlands, like, oh reason. So now you have to you can't walk outside anymore as soon as it goes dark. Because they have these fat bikes, which was like super fast, like they even cycle now past girls and push them into the bushes and stuff like that. So now you have to think, okay, I need to like make sure that I'm home safely at this time because of a male that can do this and this and this, and men can just like cycle freely.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

To be honest with you, you've been dealing with that for a long time in South Africa.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

South Africa, yes, exactly. But like the Netherlands, a country that's supposed to be like that is never under news.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

We never we never hear anything and should be negative about Netherlands.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

When I was there though, I can't say was in the press about this um almost the space of them, of men doing this to women. But I don't think it was a bit a bit of an issue because they were immigrants.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

There are immigrants though, and that's the that's the issue because it's not the Dutch culture, and that's I think that's another political conversation that I'm not, I think, intellectual enough or mature enough to have. But I do think that there are some cultures that are very aggressive in male dominant parts, you know, and I think that their religion and culture is just very male heavy. If you think about Afghanistan and Iran, and then where they do the female genitalia genitalia Iran, I think.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

What do they call it? Um, circumcision, circumcision, yeah. Yeah, I think it's gonna be that needs to happen.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah, but like it's the very like, and then the Epstein file. That is the first time that happened in 2005. It's now 2026, we're 21 years later discovering that they were eating kids, women were recruiting other girls to come for massages. Girl, it's much deeper and insane than that, and that just shows you how unsafe this world is from man. Donald Trump is still president, like it's absolutely insane. I don't know. I don't know, I'm very confused about where to stand as a as a woman.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

When I think about this stuff, I think about like the sexual urges. I know, like as a woman you can you have sexual urges as well, right? So you know, yeah, sexual urges, our sexual urges are women in charge, for sure, for sure. But I think that I remember I had a friend who was basically men, I'm sure she was a man in her in her past life. She was fucking hectic, she was starting to be a lawyer. She's an advocate now, so she's like, you know, like wicked and stuff like that means that you litigate. I remember her, I remember her at Basty saying, Do you know how you feel in that that phase of your cycle when you just want to jump everyone's bones? And I was like, Yeah, and she's like, think about the fact that a man feels like that all the time and how dangerous that is. She said that to me once. She was the kind of girl who would like she was up for any friendship. Sexually, she was like, she had threesomes all the time with her boyfriend. Like she was that girl who was at her sexual peak in the twenties. And I didn't feel like that. Yeah, I didn't feel like that at the time. And I remember her, I just remember those words that never left me. Because I remember thinking, like, if all men are walking around, running around life, feeling like the way we do in those hours where you just want to like really what's happening is that we want to make a baby, right? Yeah, I don't see who it's with, it could be the fucking postman. Like, if you smell like sweet, like let's do, brother. You know what I mean? Why that's happening. And uh when I when I think about these Epstein files and I think about all these people, like I always try and go back to the cavemen, I was trying to go back to our DNA, and I understand the spiritual part. Like I'm sure Saka will tell you as well, like this is the demonic, like spiritual part of like human sacrifice and wanting to eat children and babies and then do bad things to children and babies. It's not that's not the natural order of things. Doesn't I what what religion you are part of or what culture or what what tangent you're on, it's not the natural order of things to want to do that to small children. What humanity stands for, I would think. It's demonic, it is demonic. But like when I think about the combination of a man's sexual urges, that like he has this sexual this sexual urge to like want to like deliver his sperm into something, for example, and to make the baby every single day of his life, yeah, mainly from the time at the time he works out. That's why they have the burner, and then with the and then combined with these like the demonic influences, it doesn't surprise me. Like when you hear about stuff like this, like Epstein's Island and its whole thing. Yeah, it doesn't shock me. I'm not like, oh, this is uh this is unusual behavior. I'm not thinking that I'm thinking to make their sexual deviations a realist. That's what I think about them. I'm like, I know not all men are like that, yeah, but I also know that whoever's in that circle of things, including Donald Trump and all his like have enough money to make whatever they want, right? And no and not everybody's like that. Yeah, it's that horrible combination of power, money, and sexual urges, plus maybe the devil somewhere in demonic. I believe that.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

I believe that Satan is definitely here to destroy the plan of God where man is concerned, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Are you like religious?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

I'm not religious, and I don't want to be religious because religion limits you, right? You're unable to do, think, participate in certain things. So it should not be religious.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

So it goes back to what I said earlier, yes, about how like your frame of reference is African culture, right? So you're like Sensing ancestors, some gomas, whatever, healers, da da da da. Pardon me. I know it in a different way. I think about it differently. I say angels, blah blah blah. If someone else says, yeah, like if you speak to someone in Indian culture, they'll say something else completely different. Satan is a construct, is a a like a verbal construct in a Christian religion, but it speaks to it speaks to dark energy, it speaks to dark force that pulls you out and helps you manifest and helps you out and cleanse your soul and your body and remove your soul ties and guide you in life towards the light. You cannot think of them if you don't acknowledge that there's the dark side of the world. You cannot. And the dark side has different names in different cultures, yes, and the dark side is what it is, right? So, yes, and psychosis Satan, that's a word that someone has ascribed to a dark energy that pulls the the the progress of man and our hum humanity into a different direction. I think that like I would I wouldn't necessarily talk about Satan and dark dark entities that take us away from the path of the light, the light, the happiness, the like the good things, this world, it will try and derail you from that the whole time. And I feel I felt those forces in my life, that's one thing. Sometimes you'll find like some useless male individual will try and derail you from that, and like you don't realize that's a dark force or a dark entity that's trying to take you off the path of enlightenment from 1820s, 1830s. If you have someone who comes into your life who makes you feel like you are not achieving your highest potential from a from the light perspective, you can be sure that that person is not the energy is dark. There might not be someone who actually is a dark energy force, but the energy, the dark energy is using them to derail you from whatever your part is. Yes. My life was showing me more than once that money is talking about religion. Jesus is my homeboy, but I don't necessarily believe that he was God. Like, I don't know, make it just controversial to say that. But like I'm not talking about Jesus and God and light. I'm talking about light and dark. Yes, I'm not talking about yes. I'm still talking about them now.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

But I like the way that you also explained it, right? That people name it differently, and I can also understand why you would also ask your question based on that, right? But I always I personally feel like I can't identify. Maybe because I grew up in that setup, it was said to me so many times in that way. But now having grown up boxed in especially where there's rules. Now that I'm older, I see certain things and I'm like, but is this really what our purpose is? You know, as you said, it's a very controversial topic. So you don't want to say things that will also offend someone. Out, you know, of course, we don't believe in the same things. And I'm always asking myself, like, what is actually from your perspective, Ben, in terms of where having kids is concerned, right? What is your perspective? What is it that you need to go through, and for what reason?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Well, like, this is so funny. I've been thinking about this topic that I mean, our theme is about my mother kind of topical conversation. I don't know if it's a silly or dramatic or whatever, but this is just how I got over it, I think. Be still the best coffee in the world. And when I was pregnant, I get some coffee, it's the best. It's the best coffee in the world.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

Have you have you seen South Africa and drink Seattle coffee and tell me it's not the best coffee you've ever drank in your whole life? I think Seattle coffee is from Kenya. Oh, is it from Kenya?

SPEAKER_02 22:53

I thought it was Kenya or Uganda. I found that I didn't know that. Super tasty. Oh god. Are you a coffee country? Definitely good coffee. Tell us about your journey with motherhood. Um, then I've got that super nauseous from drinking coffee all of a sudden. And then I think that that's when you click. And I think it's so weird. I don't know if you guys saw these um shows on CLC, like where women cannot, some women cannot determine that they're pregnant, like they have no idea up until like birth.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Pregnant stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Exactly. Yeah. But like I felt that immediately, and I immediately thought, like, you know, like I can feel my boobs were like much more like, you know, when you glow and like your skin is working for you, like everything is just working. With my partner at the time, my ex, it's just not like you know both that you're not there to have kids, and like the relationship isn't stable, you know. And you're both didn't necessarily, I think there were many factors, like emotional factors where I didn't want to have kids. I think it was maybe I was scared of how I was gonna raise them, like I was all I don't know what I can give them. You know, I don't know. I just thought I was gonna be essentially to just fail them, you know, and was so longing to start living since I was young. Because when I was young, I always wanted to be like this adult and live a really good life. So then I decided to have an abortion. And what triggers me, like what I think about a lot, is when this nurse lady asked me if I wanted to see, like on the screen. I just think to myself, like, why would you ask someone that that's going through an abortion? Am I like too sensitive? Is she is she trying to dissuade you? What's the point? The sonar, yeah. Yeah, the sonar, exactly, exactly. Yeah, she's like asking me if I want to see, you know what I mean? Like, am I overthinking that part? Like it resonates quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Should I don't know if it's part of protocol, but of course, even from your perspective. No, that feels like emotionally manipulative, exactly, right? That's how it felt. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

And it's it's almost like you thought are you sure? Are you sure? Like in which you will change your mind. Obviously, you would change your mind. Obviously, you would change your mind if you if you looked, right? You know, like that's that's as a woman, you're like, wow, this is inside of me, and I'm about to get rid of it, you know, and no matter the size, I think, you know. So that's what's in my mind's outfit, even though it's not like I have to Google what it is. But on the toilet, I was like giving like death birth, you know, like so disgracefully, so like harshly, so like inhumanely almost. I do know that it must have been just before the legal, the legalness of being able to have an abortion. I remember that's what she said to me. She's like, You're just you know, there so that's about four months, really, probably. Yeah, yeah. But my skin was blowing though, like I was having like everything all over.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Everything was making sense to that if they just go downhill. But can I give you a different can I give you a different perspective? Can I give you a different perspective on this? From the toilet? You're not the first person that I know who's had an abortion or not. Yeah, of course. Advanced T at Maury Strapes Clinic, you know, Mari Strapes clinics in South Africa are ones where you can go and have an abortion, and it's um a non-profit organization. So like you can get birth control there, you can have an astronaut, you can get pep smears, and you can have an abortion. I don't and there's no judgment. Like you make an appointment and you go, you know. Um but my whole woman's right to abortion is that is it was ingrained in me or had an abortion as well. So like she always made me feel like that's your choice. Like, if you're not ready to have a baby, you shouldn't have a baby. If you don't want to have a baby, you must not have a baby. Because the likest things you will ever do in your whole life, and she feels financial independence and never aligned a man for anything. Existence is messing everything on a man. Then I had Chris because of men.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

There's literally like gangs out there that sit and listen to like everything like that.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

If you guys can bar, it's my trick could be like scared worse than what is just a little bit more open to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

That's what is even now, in the sense that now we can't even say child baby. It has to be blitzed out. It has to be blitzed out.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

So what are we just what are we talking about then? Can we call them rainbows? When you have a rainbow, when you have a rainbow after I had them, like that funny like filament thing that they put inside so that you can't um carry a pregnancy to put in afterwards and they won't um materialize and he said yes. And I remember it almost part of the words with like my words, I said, So I'm basically aborting the children that I'm making. Yeah, every time you have sex. So that's why also I know that when he after you are pregnant, but at your most fertile, yeah, your body is primed from a hormonal perspective to make a child, and he said yes. He said yes, it's possible in every cycle of the edges uh situation where it cannot be viable, then it aborts, basically. So basically that's what's happening every time. So usually getting your period, you may or may not up until then in my life. Like if I had uh conceived a child, I would have like I would have assessed my situation and been like, I'm not ready to have a baby, I will abort. If I'm ready to have a baby, I'll have the baby. If I'm not married, whatever. If I'm married, that doesn't matter. And I like there was something in me that broke a little bit when you said that. I was like, I don't want to be making life the whole time and and and it's to be like almost falling on like a fellow ground, nonsense ground, right? And I said, take it out. That same day I said take it out. I don't want this anymore. I would rather use I would rather use a condom, I would rather use birth control, like I don't want to be knowing that I'm creating life and it's happening this way every time. It's okay, whatever it is. And I was like, I thought then I had to have the moment with myself was like, have I gone from non-pro life to pro-life in that situation? Is that a child?

SPEAKER_02 28:50

So what does it do with that and you've had that whole experience?

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Yeah, like what is it? And I was like, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I had created life from my wound. That's all I could think of was that I had created this life inside me. I had this relationship with them because of my creation. And I was like, I don't want to know. Also, I had seen a psychic, right? So I'd seen a psychic somewhere in between when this had happened because of my mom, because of my mom's passing. And she had said to me, There are the baby on the other side, he was your baby, and she's waiting for you. It's a girl, and I was like, Okay. She said, At some point in time you were pregnant for quite a long time and you lost her, and you lost this baby. And she said, Do you remember not having a period for a while? And I was like, Yeah, I do. And it was during my marriage. I do, and I wasn't like I was quite thin then, so I thought maybe I was just skipping periods or whatever, and then I bought up a really bad period, and she said, That was actually when you were pregnant. And I was like, And I think like all those things clicked in me. And it's also like the soul part of me, the part of me that believes in the soul and the and the soul ties, and the fact that you come and you go, and like you have and you have this life, and then you have to have to deal with your life on the other side when you when you leave again. I was like, I don't want to be willy-nilly creating souls that don't have the chance to like be part of the world just because I have a device inside me. I don't know. That was like kind of my thinking, and I was like, I would rather use a condom, and that's kind of where we started in my marriage where we started using condoms. Part of it was that my husband, my ex-husband always wanted to use condoms in between. Like I don't know what thing was the word like that. It's a whole nother story for the whole other podcast. Because everyone's like, Wow, he was your husband, why would you want to use a condom? And I'm like, I don't know, let's talk about that, let's unpack that.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

But part of it was also in life, I would rather not create the laugh to start with. I don't want to, I don't want that to be on my conscience in a way. So, like, I can imagine that if I'd ever gone through an abortion situation, if someone had shown me on a screen that this baby was had had a heartbeat, there's no way I would ever have had an abortion. There's no way. I know that for for free now. So why would someone do that to you in that situation without trying without trying to manipulate the outcome?

SPEAKER_02 30:53

I feel like abortion if you work in an abortion clinic. Not celebrate that you're doing this, but be empathetic about the fact that it's taking for this person to go there and do this, you know, and listen to the steps of how it's going to happen. I think one of the most painful things I've ever gone through. And I asked her, like, is it painful or not? And she says some people go through pain, other people like don't at all. And because I've broken my arm at the age of 26, you know, well, I think 25. And I thought that that was really sore doing that. It literally feels like something's like your entire system is like disconnecting, this whole embryo is just getting over your walls and it's like coming out nice. I don't know if I'm being too empathetic. That he was like playing like heavy metal music.

unknown 31:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

I was like, dude, how are you letting this music compete my sound? I just need you to be quiet. Letting a man can deal with that kind of thing. They cannot. They're not built for that. It took me six hours, guys, to get rid of that. Wow. Six hours. I wouldn't want to be on abortion again. I'm just too scared of like child trafficking, human trafficking, like rape, a man mistreating her, like going through an abusive relation things about life, which is having to put another person through all of these life lessons when I haven't even figured out how to get through my type of life lessons. I don't feel like I'm there to be able to teach and love someone to do differently, you know, or go differently. Because, like, I mean, you don't really listen to your parents all the time. You kind of learn from them, but only in your late awareness stages, you know. So I don't know, like I have a lot of those thoughts. And I also think, you know, like I'm really not there in my life from a maturity perspective to have that time. Like this child maybe learned new lesson or changes you that you've learned. It's very contradicting because I was thinking, like, wow, it could be nice to connect to someone and have a cool friend eventually, and that's the person, and you can have a good relationship with them, you know, the connection that you only have with your parents. Like I was thinking at this one time my mom and I were driving when it was the good times, you know. She I remember it was the Gulf City and we like hit the curve. And then we were laughing because we knew my dad was gonna be angry, and we knew we had to like explain this band now on the story. So, like, and we just laughed and we just looked at each other and she was like, Well, I'm gonna miss I was, you know, young or whatever. And I just felt like that must be such nice moments to have, like and feel from a motherly perspective. And I would want to have that, but I just feel like life is just way too scary to bring in a human being. But I definitely think I would adopt if I have that type of stability, someone that has maybe that needs that needs to be adopted.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Yeah, I think that's like, you know. I respect more I respect more now that I'm a mom than she's wanting to be a mom biologically or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

If I had post-natal depression, and I'm like, I wouldn't wish that like that sounds really sad, like really, really traumatic. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

I'm not I'm not worst enemy. Or do the most post-natal depression and anxiety waste enemy. And like those people from post-natal depression means you want to which I never felt in a million years. I never felt like I was gonna hurt or kill my child. I felt like I couldn't take care of them. I felt like fundamentally I was not in a position to take care of someone of another human being. When you have this post-bottom depression feeling, yeah, like it's basically like a psychosis, if I'm not if I'm if I'm being honest about it. Of course, I could take care of his basic needs. But what was happening at the same time, I couldn't take care of my own basic needs, like my own mental health needs. So you were like crashing how am I going to be available for this human being if I can't keep my own mental health in check? Like, how am I gonna do that? And then I was like, he he would be better off if I wasn't around. That was my whole that was my whole tangent. Was like, if I check out and I plan my suicide, which I had done, my text from the world, like his father will meet someone else, or like the grannings will step in and someone will help them doesn't allow. I remember in that phase, I didn't understand it before, and I understood. I was like, this is why somebody would choose product in that situation. I was like, Yeah, and if someone says to me they want to they want to have a baby and they want they want to be childless, I'll be like, fuck an A. U D U B. Definitely. I had great. Why is that such a definition? It's not what defines us. It's not, it's not the it's not, it's not necessarily your false purpose in this world, yeah, as a child, to have a human being, to produce reproduce.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Do you guys did you guys see that on your Instagram? Like where this one had like male health coach came on, and they were speaking exactly about that, where it is a woman's part to have to do that, like it's our duty, and because there's a high rate of women not wanting to have children now and men not panicking about this, and it's like really big discussion. Blatantly on this two and a half hour fucking podcast going on about how this is what women need to do and how it needs to be changed.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

No, if you're not ready to have a baby, you shouldn't have one. Yes. You talk always 21. Like it doesn't matter what age grain you're in, having a baby and preparing your life for sharing and like and like uh that you're not the priority anymore. You have to be okay with that. If you're not okay with that, it's such it's so hectic. Like prayed for my children, prayed for them. I was like, I'm ready for you. Come to me. And when they came, when my son came, I was still like, I can't do this, I'm not the right person for you. I don't believe in myself enough to be your mother. That's that's how I felt at that time. It's hard, it is fucking hectic. If you don't want to do that, you don't do that. Then just try it. But that's how I feel. I agree with you. But there's nothing takes away from me from an evolutionary perspective because you haven't reproduced nothing. I'm gonna go back to the cavemen. I love the cavemen, the cavemen in any tribe, there was women who reproduced and there was women who transferred knowledge, they were the knowledge givers. Yeah, or they were the ones who kept the archie, what we call archite in the corporate world, right? Intellectual property, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Because they were the wiser, the older person is more experienced, you know, in their lives.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

They know exactly how the tribe worked. They know where you get your where your food sources are from, they know how to store food, they know how to make sure that the world keeps running in a way that means that's meaningful for everyone. Like the people who were giving birth to babies were the ones who knew who that was the subject matter expert. It's just like being in a corporate, like it's yeah, like it's okay not to be the one who gives he gives birth. Even in a even in a caveman pan situation, not everyone was childbearers. It's not in the natural order of things, not every woman has to give birth to a baby.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Um I definitely agree. But what was the point of having babies is to keep the gene or the the culture or the people going? The lineage was small, you know. So we need to reproduce. And if you have a girl, then it doesn't help from like that gap, filling that position, because he specifically also said about how his gene pool needs to go on. And a lot of women are like, what made you need to have to go on you specifically? You know, like maybe that Albert Einstein's gene pool would be kind of but in of importance, but the sons different generations grab. Like it's the same as with the with, I think it was the one of the um the German princes. It's all about that type of dynamic, you know, and I think that behavioral habits and is of quite a quite a big impact. And then it's all about like I think when you grow older, how do you manage that and how do you change that? And I think that's that's quite difficult. It's the same when we were talking about like your mother's mother and what you bring on and the karma and the spiritual tie, even from giving birth. When you give birth, like you're giving birth to all of mothers, mothers, mothers, mothers. You're carrying that.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

What do you do with it? What do you do with it? I know what's been given to you. What do you do with it? Like, are your soul who's mature enough to be like, okay, that is what's been handed down for me. I'm gonna change the narrative, or am I gonna carry on and like this is all I know is I'm gonna carry on with this narrative. Like I could have been my mom, I could have been my mom. And a big a big thing that happens in my life all the time is that like when I'm feeling low, my life is not going according to plan. And often when I fight with my sister, that's why she's not me my mom, right? I feel like I'm reverting to her and I'm becoming her. I don't want to be her, I don't want to be making the same mistakes as her. Like I already know that in my at my in my age group, I've done better than she did. Financially, probably emotionally, probably as a mom as well. I've done better than her in terms of how I'm executing my life, but in my lower moments, I'm like, I'm exactly like her. And I am her. I am her because of all the neglect that she had, because she was an abandoned child. I'm inheriting all the demons, whether I like it or not. And in fact, how do you like fear? How do you navigate it?

SPEAKER_01 39:50

It's very difficult when you're traumatized. It's not such an easy thing to just get over, right? Most part of your life. I think that's uh that's the thing I like most of the time we live out our traumas rather than dealing with them. Because dealing with is even much harder. Because now I have to be honest, maybe I am this monster that I don't think I am, you know? Now you have to deal with the fact that maybe that is you, but the fact that you notice me is a much better thing because we're able to change it. Rather than someone who says, I actually don't want to deal with it. I do believe we're such a broken society, and I personally believe there's nothing new under the sun. I think it's an amplif amplification of things that have already been there. Now they're just with each generation, it's just coming out and coming out. There was most probably hidden was a secret. Some things were there, but maybe not as deep as we know now. So it's very hard, especially when you have to live in a society where sometimes you feel like you're misunderstood. Misunderstood on the level that when you have to be yourself, someone is telling you you can't be. Why? Why do I have to be how you feel like? Why can't you accept me for who I am? Especially if I have a good heart or I'm a good person. Why do I have to continue to this thing of you have to be like this and this in order for me for me to accept you? You know, it's very hard to find yourself in that um, let me say in such a world. So I can understand even from your perspective why you wouldn't want to bring a child in this world because you're thinking like, damn, this is what you have to go through. Myself, I'm suffering. People are judging me. And then what if I bring you? How will I handle that? I I told my sisters, you know, I said, you know, sometimes I don't like using this phrase, but sometimes when you don't find yourself in those shoes, it's very hard to understand. You know, it doesn't feel things you cannot control. You know, if I feel painful, the fact that you may have hit my child, I can't control the fact that that pains me. You know, that's the kind of connection you cannot you cannot break. Then you have to use your logic, and it is okay, I'm emotional because this is my child, right? But am I right for being emotional? Should I think about it from a perspective of yes, maybe I do not like, but what is the situation that's happening? You know, are you feeling this pain because really it's valid, or are you feeling this pain because it is your child? So there's there's always that biased complexity, I feel like, as as parents, that you see even in others, even in yourself, even in in the environment you also grew up in, that you know, when there's there's a particular sort of favoritism, you can see it even with the kids that are the favorites and those that are not.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

You know, and when you when you analyze especially not like boomers, never gonna take accountability for any shit that they did. That is so traumatizing. It's traumatizing. The gaslight was 101. Yeah, they're the ones who basically invented gaslighting, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

No, like I think that the boomers must have had it tough because a lot of them have parents that came from like World War II or like stuff that happened in South Africa.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

African boomers in South Africa are the ones who went through apartheid, so like the way of looking at the world is completely it's like so set in stone. You cannot be immovable.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

And then also like with the movement of females only allowed to open up like bank accounts and only in the 60s, you know, like without a male figure signing for us on their behalf. So like I think that they had like so much hardship, and women were either called whining women when they had like preparing pore symptoms, or like were dubbed crazy, you know, and electrocuted when they were going through their like lithial phases because they got them in their heads.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Yeah, yeah, that was a real that was a real thing that like helped your mental things every so much out of them.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

shock out that memory. I don't know. I don't know. But yeah. It's just I think that they had a really, really like hard, cold it's a not a humane connection. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

I think we have become a little bit more like softer and more like connected and aware slowly. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

Our identities, our identities in our generation are shaped by the people who raised us, who was raised in situations like that. With the human aspect of life will go to a psychologist or a healer or a spiritual healer or whatever. I don't know, even like a a guru like to help us on our journey wasn't something they would go to first. This wasn't something they've all won like an up shit head on like this, you know, and such a big girl or no one's coming to rescue you. Yeah. You know, like most of the time. I'm not saying all the time, but most of the time. Maybe in more privileged um place of society it was different. But I think if you weren't in that situation, your parents were trying to teach you hard lessons from young. And it's hard. It's hard to like be confronted with that all the time. From from which life is shit, life is hard. And then like now our generation wants to uh have children who are a little bit more not Christian a little bit more like life is not going to be so hard like you make it your own but we're trying not to put the boom away on them. But that's all we know. That's our parents all pregnant. That's our blueprint. Yeah. That's all we know. So we're trying to like parent a different generation of children.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

New generation of children.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

And our only way of knowing about parenting is what we got from the boomers. We didn't know anything actually about yeah if I think about the things of my mom installing me like I said earlier like financial independence and resilience. Yeah she knew that those were the things that I needed. She knew from when I was small that if she didn't do that for me no one else is going to do this.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

Like and her whole existence and her whole childhood everything was that a man has been charged financially in the house that he does everything. That he makes sure that he's there and she raised me in a different way. So she broke the cycle maybe it survived breaking cycle.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

It is about breaking cycles I agree. I 100% agree I feel like personally you know I'm fine for breakfast. Yeah you know because as much as our parents raised us in a great but I I can't go and say look I don't agree with this you know and yes we're having a conversation we were sitting I tell you this is my perspective of things but then again parents don't like being told that you have an opinion that is different to theirs right so we just analyze from afar what do you mean what do you mean about this meme this latina guy he does his memes on Instagram where it's like he's like gaslighting from uh an immigrant parent he's always living in America but he has Latino parents that you have given me given me the blueprint of the white laugh and this immigrant parent just to him and he's like let's just unpack this did you finish college no for that for you you didn't finish college and no because I'm paid you didn't finish college can you talk to me about things that you know about because you think it's a Latina appearance as an American and how the gas lights and every time you ask for the accountability comedian I've seen no you are not like I'm asking for you I'm asking you as a boom appearance for accountability and then a gaslight because they're like don't you ever question me as a parent in your whole life like little that we had a roof over our heads and building us have so like it's a whole like barrier that they put in place.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

It's a gaslighting barrier that they put in place. Yeah like I think like am I doing something different with my children is his name Gabor or Gabor or something like that. He's that like he's a girl those very intense eye bags I don't know and he always speaks about like a conference but then he had a whole audience and this lady stood up and she asked him the question like how do I know I'm doing better than my parents and he said his answer was the fact that you've asked that question means that you're doing better than you do. That's different in any way in any small way to how your parents raised you is 100% better than what happened in the generation before. And as I think the whole the whole conversation in that conference was about like gener breaking generational cycles. Yeah and he was like you don't you don't realize you think that you are you are um replicating the blueprint that you had as a parent but you don't understand how much you are breaking and changing in terms of how you are parenting the next generation. And I was like and I was thinking about it from my own perspective as well like uh give us the basics for sure education uh feeding your family refer your head understand yeah like I know for sure I'm giving my voice more than that yeah like I know I've broken that cycle so I'm okay with that yeah but still like also back to you cans like if you if you can't do that for a child and you and you know you can't you don't have the capacity to do it from an emotional perspective it's also okay not to have a child I don't have a choice sometimes you have a choice I chose my children chose I was in a I was in a marriage in a financially stable situation I was like I'm ready to have children I was in that situation maybe in circle wasn't there mess I chose even when I was the complete opposite I still chose to have a child responsibility yeah to take the responsibility you know to take whatever would come at me I have no one else to blame I have no one else to ask I'm the one who made the choice I have to say yeah and how was it to be a young mom like that?

SPEAKER_01 49:44

It was very difficult I'm not gonna lie in in the very beginning I had lost even more weight and I mean I was already tiny I'm tiny now I'm actually quite big for those that know me I'm very big you know they they even get to a point of telling me that I actually need to lose weight why because they they have to because she's stereotype it's just she's tiny she's tiny she's little everywhere if you if you had known me before I was less much little than this so I have lost weight of course from breastfeeding stress anxiety I'm in school I have to end classes I have to come back and do the assignments the homework and I still need to breastfeed I need to take care of the child I need to make sure that when I'm at school sometimes it was very hard for me to even concentrate in class because I'm thinking I wasn't sleeping and I'm also thinking of the person who's taking care of my child is she doing it right you know is she taking care of my child the way I would I'm here I'm in class I'm drifting I'm trying to concentrate about I was constantly thinking of I need to get through this class I need to get home to check on my child you know it was very difficult that's very even worse if you have someone then adminising issues you start fighting past you know did you finish your degree did you have that you know after all that you know I I personally even thought I was never gonna finish because I was constantly going through trial and tribulation trial and tribulation I'm in tribulation and I'm thinking and look at us with nine year old sons and the old boys who are good to you are good humans.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

Yes someone said that to me the other day I was like being like all like oh look at him with this with this I'm so proud of him someone said to me are you proud of yourself because you raised that human so you can do that you're doing this you raised that human in spite of everything with you right this child also lost your father my father at the same time he was his grandfather that person he didn't know this he was first son yeah this person is there now he's not there anymore like he he shares his home between two parents he's in a co-parenting relationship with you and despite all of that he's still excelling at this sport that he's chosen that he loves and I was like you did that and I didn't think about it like that. I was like you don't you don't that's true and beautiful hopefully empathetic human being and that's all I want that's all I want actually out of this situation is that I want to make sure that the children that are raised are human beings that I refuse to let the boys that are raised in this world not have empathy. So the empathy for the the haves and the have nots in South Africa is huge. It's huge like a divide between wealthy wealthy and poor in South Africa is it's evidence on every street corner it's so ectic it's in it's in your face every day. And if your children don't understand that you have failed you have failed as a South African parent you have failed.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

In the world as well but in South Africa in particular you have failed but also it's just to be like in a private school in a private school you're doing wild school like your parents can afford to get send you to extra lessons for the things that make you that are that you're passionate about use what you have for good basically yeah and charity begins at home guys we need we need to understand that in order for for my son particularly to be who he should be his purpose I need to invest in him because there's this notion where it's always you have to put yourself last put everyone first right and sometimes that even requires putting your own family last which I do not agree with because I should be able to equip my own first right because I would know how it feels in order for me to do the same for the next person a lot of family members neglect their immediate family. The family that you made is the one that should be your focus right make sure that I empower you so that I can empower even the next person not empower the person outside and not do anything for you. I feel like that isn't fair. Yeah and I realize it happens a lot in culture I've realized it's almost like you have to help the congregation first before you help the one you created you didn't you had a choice to create the one you created empower the one that you have made right so that you are able to do the same even for the one outside.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

You're not even you not do too much for the outside but neglect the inside how do you think that fits in with the concept of Ubuntu because ubuntu is about I am because we are right so it's that whole it is what you just spoken about where you show that the community for the village is okay because the individuals are okay. Yes so what you're just spoken about is like the convergence of African and Western culture.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Western is very individualist I definitely agree because it's the bigger cultures that have bigger family situations where the aunt and this and the uncle and it's just a much more bigger I think those cultures are always more like for the whole child to be looked after and grown and the community is raising this children child and being there. But I think definitely a Western culture it was discussed quite often is where it's a lot of aloneness you know like a single mom can still be okay because she still has her mom and her and her grandmother still going in the same compound. But it's the hard Western it's like really really tough for like if a single mom that let's say for instance her mom's not around or her mom doesn't want anything to do with her or sends her for having this child or whatever. The cultures are very different. Very very very different.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

It's hard to kind of give back from a young age which was unusual for our age group as a black black individual in South Africa. So he arrived at university and he was uh an equalified etc and he's done very well for himself in the kind of in the corporate sector right then both of his parents die within three years of each other but they were divorced okay but then his mum she she lived in a province called the Eastern Cape and she had a million different business interests but one of the main but one of the biggest business interests or like assets that she had is a massive piece of land in the Eastern Cape and this land is divided in four equity like in four uh squares uh rectangles and on each plot of the land has one of her siblings so two brothers two sisters for example and they all had that piece of land and they got an a allowance and a stipend it's as far as the eye can see it's huge pieces of huge tracks of land that they had now she's passed on she has just all of these empires that she's got in Eastern Cape and he's got this very western way of viewing things where he's like this is my money I've inherited this okay it's my money because the land is my money whatever's produced by this land is my money but living on this land he said to me I've taken all the high lapses away I've put them on tow beds and I've brought them transmit their pox in this way how does this fit in with your culture I spoke to him and his wife about it I said like because she's also she's from exactly the same situation where she was also from the Eastern Cape blah blah and they were on the same page so I was like I knew I wasn't going to convince them otherwise but I said just from a cultural perspective what is going to happen with these people they're all in their 70s like they don't have anywhere else to live and he said he's gonna pay them out he's gonna sell the land pay them their portion of whatever the land is worth sell the helloxes and whatever and I said to him how does this fit in with Ubuntu and what your mom would have wanted that's very western thinking yeah like how do you how do you fit that in because you have applied Western probate law that him and his brothers and they divide the value of it between the two of them and they have the money right I said how's that fit in with the because your mom wouldn't have wanted these poor people not to have somewhere to live because it's not only them it's their whole family. And he said to me I couldn't give a fuck what and I was like I love him more than anything he's one of my favorite people in the whole world and his wife and like I've known him since I was 17 right so I've been through the whole all the motions of our life and I just said to him this doesn't sit right with me and he said it was almost like him and his wife were like we actually don't want your opinion in this situation because I think it was such a hard decision for them but I was like why did they feel the need he was like my mum had given them their whole life's worth because she was the only one in the family who had made something of herself and she had given them for so long in certain of their lives he felt like his it was his opportunity to say here's your lump sum and tilt your life out basically for each of the four of them of those pieces of land because also he didn't want to be the one who was managing four farms basically because that's what have happened I need money for this because the crow's gone to the vet I need this because this building's collapsed I need this because we don't have irrigation or lucky he's like I'm not a farm manager. So he was applying this very western lens to this very traditional area the Eastern Cape and I was like I'm sitting there as a white person going like I need to do the things that they needed to do like he's saying himself in a position of having to manage everything. He did because his mom was doing it before and then she just passed away and then she had a massive B B Airbnb and they were like all the decisions and directions came to him and he's like no no no I'd like to have a full-time job he has he's a full-time incorporate in Johannesburg he's a dad he's married to a corporate chick like they have two children like he doesn't have town to be managing farms and BND's in Eastern Camp so he's like I'm gonna sell it like this is what this is not portfolio. I'm gonna liquidate all of this and I'm like thinking about the fact that his mom wouldn't have wanted that number one to making sure the family stays okay in that situation number two and then how did we get yeah now what I want to understand how was his relationship with his family no he had no relationship with them so they were completely separate. So his mom was from the apartheid generation right so she had made something of herself in spite of all the restrictions of apartheid number one and his father as well because his father became a judge in the Eastern Camp. Remember in the what was it called so it was a separate economy and a government in the in the in the realm of apartheid so he had made himself very successful in that perspective. That was why everything was happening in the Eastern but he didn't have a good relationship with his mom at all whatsoever so that by the time she passed away that's the best situation for me and my young family.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

That's why prevention almost like because I was trying to understand why would someone just make a decision like that for I'm I'm trying to put myself in this position if I had a good relationship with those people all those things are weighing down on me right I would make sure to put in place that you know what if I have to manage all these particular lands right you guys are staying here let's come to agreement I don't want to remove you from this place but I also cannot manage it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

I can't pay for this I can't pay for this every month yeah right it would be a conversation I assume he didn't do that he just I don't think so I mean I didn't even know how you re-extracted the the the Toyota highlights from the farms to be honest with you I was like okay why do you have so many buckies in your driveway?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

There was none there.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

So you know like what the example is trying to explain the the distinction between like how Ubuntu Ubuntu and Western culture but also how this whole generation now my generation basically because he's the same age as me who is like being raised educated is working in a completely different situation to their previous to the people who raised them have completely different expectations and everybody who depending on them from an Ubuntu perspective right so like one person mandated in your family you must feed all of them you must feed your village basically you are now the chief you have to become the chief because you've got a job and you're earning a big salary and you've become the chief then all of a sudden the chief transfers to someone in the millennial generation and they're like no fuck I don't care fuck off I don't want to do all this thing probably thinking this is not my jurisdiction. No and he's like I don't know how to manage a farm like are you joking I don't want you to buy me at the top and it's like diesel for the generator that generates the parts to irrigate the land to do blah blah blah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Yeah but I mean I get it from his perspective he could have sat down in a little conversation but already they don't get along right unless you like that like what I do is even enough there are generations that are clashing at the moment all over the world over the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:24

It's not a it's not unique to South Africa. There are generations in terms of how we approach everything from like how we raise our children to probate to how things are handled in terms of how you feed your village or the where you came from or how you handle raising your children in terms of letting people interfere or not that are changing now. Like we are like in the in we are in the flux part of it between those two generations and it's really difficult to be raising children in in different cultural aspects as well like it maybe I don't I don't experience it because I don't have parents anymore but my parents have passed. But I also know that if my mom was still alive it would be a big issue because she had no money. Mom had no money like nothing. She didn't have a send to her name if I wanted her to be in my life to help me with my children I would have always had to pay for her to be with me and to spend time with me. And I probably would have had to fund her whole life after her retirement as well obviously I know now after she died how much she had in her savings which was most nothing. I would have had to fund her whole existence until she died. And as a as a person who's been raised in that culture she raised me in the drone depend on a man financially perspective I would have had to reserve at least 50% of my income to make sure that she survived every month you know to make sure that she had food and she could pay for her property and she would have medical cover. This whole podcast has been about generational theory which is what I did my master's theory my master's thesis on as well and it's a true story. It's a true story we've just been raised with a completely different set of values and we're all trying to raise each other. Yeah we all try relationships with each other and it's difficult sort of thing and now we're raising a new generation of humans of men the two of us are raising generation of men how are we gonna raise empathetic men who treat women in a way in a non-conditional way in a way that's like it's not that this woman is here to clean my house raise my children and be my soul emotional seditions and not my partner. How am I gonna raise how are we gonna raise our boys to make sure that they view women in a different way? I don't know if I don't know what the answer is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Then we need to research it you know I feel like for as long as you know right you you as his mom will know what it is to say what you say. Because kids most of the time listen to what comes out of your mouth more than anything right and they put it into practice and I realized with my son if I tell him you do not handle a woman like this right from the time he's young when you're constantly repeating the same thing it's almost like they end up molding into that they know that they have to open the door for you they have to treat you with respect they have to emphasize they need to understand that you're a woman you're not just going to be treated in any other way you know when you're a child you see your parent as like a person who knows everything. They tell you that you can't do that you can't do that. If they tell you you can't do this you can't do it when that's right or wrong they go with you they go with what you say. Most importantly they also go with how you behave. If they see from a behavioral perspective you know that say monkey see monkey do other people take it lightly it does exist when they say the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree sometimes. It's almost from that perspective of if we do not teach our kids from the time that they need to be taught after a certain age you cannot teach them. They start teaching themselves when you teach a child at an age that they need to be taught they will carry it out through even if they go astray they will remember that you know what my mom Told me that this is wrong. And as a person, as you grow up, you also start realizing that you know what? It is wrong. Maybe when you see it on TV, you know, maybe you see a man beating a woman up, it's going to shock you as well because you're like, what? You can't beat the woman like that, you know. And if there are those men that you give that are like, you need to discipline a woman, she needs to be beat. She can't speak to you like that. She can't, she can't go out and come back at nine. She deserves to be disciplined, you know. And it's it's very sad that a lot of the time there's there's people who are from broken families where they put them they put the man's needs more than the kids' needs. So if that guy says this is not what I want, it's not gonna work in your dog, that's wrong for your child.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:40

But how amazing that like a single mama gets to change that narrative. Yeah, because there isn't a man in our house all the time, right? Yeah, there's no man in my house is to tell them how a man should treat the woman. Yes, like I can like, okay, in my situation, unfortunately, my co-parent does have someone in his house and can't control how he treats the situation. But in my house, I often speak to my brother, but my cycle to say, like, yeah, some money has a period now. So often I'll come into another often because I'm very an open mouth, or we'll get into the shower be naked and I'll be walking, I'll be storming around in the middle in the morning, naked. Have you ever pressure? Um, I don't care. Like I'm naked, like this is what a woman's body looks like. But I have a caveat on that, which is that I've heard my voice say more than once, this woman is fat. And I'm what makes a woman fat? What does a woman being fat mean to you? And they're like, no, she's chubby, whatever. And I know part of me thinks maybe they're looking at me because I'm not I'm I'm a slim person, everybody is the same. So I'm I'm trying to do this whole like situation around like not every woman is the same. There's a lot of chubby women who are who who are so beautiful, just naturally, they have really big beeps. And I say to them, I've had my beeps done. My beeps are not real. They have beautiful big beeps and big and tiny ways and big bounds, and they are beautiful. Those are those are magic, they are majestic women. And I know for a fact that my youngest son, you know, he watched the music video of Big Dick Energy. What's the song? It's a my the Mara Kiri song where it's like the Big Ladder. Her name's Big Ladder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the big energy song. But she's like singing the big dick energy song. But like the video that they sing is obviously the PC one, it doesn't say big dick, it says big big energy. But now in the music video, big ladder is a super cute black woman. She's just but she's just a lay bird, so she's like a red taxi with like black dogs all over, and she's got a lady like wings, and she's writhing around. She's writhing around in the rounds, right? And I and I it was on my YouTube playlist, so like just playing all the music videos. And Matthew was probably about all these 10 eight, so it's probably about six, maybe, maybe five or six. And they're watching doing her ladybird thing in the in the in the water. She's in the water in the in the in the music video, and he's watching this, and he goes, he looks at me, he looks at the screen, and I'm like, Manny, what's doing? And he said, I'm watching this music video moment. I was like, okay. And then he goes, No, Willie's growing up. And I was like, Okay, why is the water? Why is the willie going up? Except because she's so beautiful. And I always remind him of that. Always say to him, Do you remember that? You knew that that woman was peaceful because she had all the curves in all the right places. Every woman looks like mother. I'm not straight up and down. I've got like a bit of curves, but I come straight up and down, like if they're not real. But like, um I don't know how to explain to them. I don't know how to impress on them that the beauty of a woman is not one way, it's not like it it can be curved, it can be whatever, it can be like your face, it can be your soul, it can be whatever. Like I don't, they don't care. I start talking and they're like, okay, shut up. And I'm not, but I don't know if it's just the case of like we just have to bang on about it. It's like, okay, this is the reality of the world. Like our podcast has been a little bit all over the place, and I think we hope that it would be like had a mom or not or or choose not to be a mom in a situation where you know you you are confronted with being a mom, for example. Yeah, but I think we we touched a lot on cultural influences, and I think that no matter where you are in the world, the what the culture that you were raised in will always dictate the kind of person or mom that you will be, number one. But our children are being raised in almost a culturaless environment. Um, so it's it's like I think as a as a podcast, we just want to say, as a as a group of women, we just want to say like it's actually no one's actually judging you, no one's actually saying like you need to do a certain way. Like we're we're actually a village and we should we should all rely on each other and we should use the resources that we have available. I love Instagram for making sure that I'm on track and just understanding what it means to raising a boy who's coming through puberty, mounting 215. Also, if you don't want to raise any children, you don't have to candice, you don't have to raise children. It's not your it's not your destiny, it's not the world doesn't expect that of you. It's not it's not the most important thing, it's not your it's not your destiny because you have a whim.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:17

It's not your blueprint in that way. Also, as as a woman, you know, you have to take care of yourself first because I feel like as a woman, we have been taught that we have to put someone else before ourselves. We always have to make sure that we are good first for those of us who have children, want to have children, that when you're okay as a mom, your child will always be okay. We always need to think of that. Even those that don't have kids, always make sure you put yourself first, be okay for yourself first, so that you are able to know and empathize that the next person, you would be able to feel that you know what, because I find myself in a specific space, I can empathize with the next person. So always start with yourself. I think as a woman specifically, but also in general as a person.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:05

Pour pour from a full cup. Pour from a full, yes. Pour into the children you've produced or the people in your life from a full cup. Like it's it's sometimes it's easier said than done. Definitely. But the small things that you can do to fill your cup, even when you're in a corporate situation like I am, like it drains my energy from like Monday to Friday. Like if I can just if I can just say that I s I find small things that fill my cup, that make sure that I I pour into my children or into my partner in a way that is meaningful. Like it can be the tiniest thing, like getting the nails done, for example, and feel like feeling like I'm still like in touch with society. Like it's just it can be a small thing like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:47

And that we've all we we all here and we've got each other, actually, at the end of the day. We actually all have each other. If you actually speak about it with other girls, you realize that not everyone is expecting you to be at a certain level that you are judging yourself against.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:01

Just be you, that's all. Just be you and work on yourself always.