How Reading the Room and Empathy Can Make You a Powerful Woman in Any Room

Most women in corporate get told to "play nice" or "tone it down." Judith Murdoch flipped the script—sharing her raw journey from corporate chaos to carving out her own success, all while navigating the often-unspoken hurdles women face in male-dominated industries. Spoiler: It’s about resilience, authentic confidence, and quite a bit of hustle.

Judith’s story of being made redundant and turning what felt like a kick in the teeth into her own business is pure gold. She breaks down how a quick pivot, a dash of self-doubt, and a website built for a deal saved her from the abyss. You’ll discover: the secret to turning redundancy into a launchpad, why money is your ultimate safety net, and how surrounding yourself with inspiring, even ordinary, people turbocharges your journey.

We break down: the importance of having a safety net when starting out, the power of confidence and storytelling at work, and how to read social cues to avoid disaster. Judith shares eye-opening stories of workplace absurdites—like the bra-mandate mishap that left her tears, and the subtle ways women are underestimated or dismissed. Her insights into how emotional intelligence and strategic self-awareness can transform your career and personal life?

Here’s why this matters: hiding your voice or shrinking yourself isn’t just uncomfortable—it's costly. Whether you’re thinking about freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just want to feel more in control of your destiny, Judith's advice delivers practical steps with a side of humor and heart. It’s about doing your own thing, daring to be seen, and rewriting what success means for you.

Perfect for women in transition, ambitious professionals, or anyone tired of the status quo—this episode is a masterclass in authenticity, resilience, and the joy of unapologetically owning your space. Ready to turn setbacks into setups for success? Hit play and start rewriting your story today.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

I'm super happy to have you here, Judith. As we chatted um when we were introduced by Hiskey, well, I just jumped onto a call with you. Um, we asked you how you do things, and then we thought let's jump onto the podcast. So, hi. Um thank you for being on here. I think that um I would just really start with if you can introduce yourself to my listeners, um, that would be super cool.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Okay, so to introduce myself then, my name is Judith Murdoch, and um I have my own business Murdoch Associates. My background is I started off in food and hospitality, and then ended up working in food manufacturing, uh, had a family, and so uh stopped working for a little while, and then ended up working at an oil refinery, uh which was a vegetable oil refinery, and then got into palm oil and became heavily involved in sustainable palm oil, and then started my own business in 2015. So that's kind of me, and that's what I'm still doing working in my own business today.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Amazing. I read about your journey, and what really stood out to me is how you went from corporate and then now, as you mentioned, pause a little bit, being a mom, and then corporate corporate, which I think um the type of industry that you were in in my brain from only being in the working industry for like 10 years, but including my junior roles. Um, for me, that's quite a male-dominated industry, and I think you need to be quite intellectual as well when it comes to that. So that's like what really blew my mind. So I would like to know going from that moment, how did you start just okay? I'm going to freelance now, the stable work.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah. It was a it it was a very easy uh step because basically I was made redundant. So exactly, yeah. And so the cla the classic situation was I was made redundant, and the minute I was made redundant, uh, in the same interview, I was asked if I would go back as a consultant, which is uh probably uh not a very uh legal situation to be in because but I think it's quite quite common that people you know get made redundant and you know, but actually we really see your your value in the business, but we don't see it as a full-time role. And I really, really struggle for a couple of weeks of feeling kind of I don't know, not insulted, but upset, and then sort of thinking, yeah, you know what, this could be an opportunity. And so it was it was a shut, it was a shove out of one business, and I and I went and I went back, and then that's kind of how I I started. So I did have work right from the very beginning, and that that was a really useful step because I didn't just dive off the edge and then start setting up my own business. So that that was that was kind of really useful, although it was tough tough because I bet I went from being somebody with a company car and a pension and then sick pay and holiday pay to suddenly like here you go, you you're on the you're on your own.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Okay, okay. That's kind of a different way to be thrown in the deep end. So, what is that feeling that you mean by like the bad feeling?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Yeah, I mean, I think I just felt I just felt uh undervalued and um I wasn't good enough. Um you know, colleagues who I'd worked with were still enjoying all of the perks of the job, and I I was sort of, you know, sort of almost on the back foot. So I did I actually did find it quite hard. And I think looking back now, sort of what is 10 years, you know, just over 10 years later, um, that yeah, it was it was a really hard couple of years. I think and it when I got different um new um new clients that I actually won on my own merit, then that's when it changed things because actually I I won this. Somebody really wants to to speak to me and listen to my opinion, and that just totally took me into a completely different place. So I couldn't I couldn't say it lasted a year, it lasted two years, but I think probably must have lasted it sort of like the first six months uh when I didn't have any other clients, but I I quickly got a couple of extra clients, and then that made a huge difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Okay, were you like super excited? You're like, this is overwhelming, but I took but you took it with both hands. Yes, yes, yes. That's fun. I feel like that's like give you the drive, you know, to go and take it. Yeah, put the websites and everything only afterwards. That wasn't your first.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, and that has been um I mean, again, I got someone to help me with my website by actually doing some work for them and just said, look, it it was a deal of look, we'll build your website for you, and why don't you come and do this for us? And so that's what I did. Because of course I didn't have money, you know, I did have redundancy money, but I didn't want I wanted to keep that for myself as a safety net. So that's when I yeah, so somebody helped build the website. I wanted to have an identity so that if people went to look for me, I'm always slightly amused when people say they've been looking on the website or something like that, because I was thinking, uh oh yes, but um or it or on LinkedIn, they're like, oh, you saw me on LinkedIn, I still find that quite funny. Um, but um, yeah, so that got me an identity fairly quickly. But it was more the fact that I wanted people to realize that I was serious, that this was my business, but it but it also I've realistically I've won business through word of mouth, and I think the website and that corporate that sort of corporate image, LinkedIn, whatever, is is a is a security blanket. People saying, Yes, she's a real person, or yes, Mrs. I I see this, I see what she's done, or whatever. So I think that's that's the that's the key thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

I think yeah, it's word of mouth, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

So you mentioned safety net twice, and then money was a topic, and um what was the other one? Is having like a profile.

unknown 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

I'm assuming obviously a good profile, um, an up-to-date profile. So would you say having some form of a safety net is important? Um, so that you can, even though even if you have a full-time job and you're not thinking ever about freelancing because you have like your dream job or even not.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, I guess it's about you as an individual, because having a safety net for me at that time is that I had a young family. Um, and although my husband was working, he was self-employed. So it was, and the other thing is that I've always had my own money. And therefore been been able to stand, you know. So when I had a family and I took some time out, my husband supported me. And that was kind of great, and I did get used to being supported, but actually, um, I always I've always been in charge of my own destiny financially wise, and that that was that was something that was really quite crucial to me. I'm not materialistic, so it wasn't about oh, well, you know, I don't want someone to tell me I can't go shopping. It wasn't about that, it was about I'm in control because I have money and therefore I have choices, and maybe not lots of money, but I have choices of direction of what I want to do as an individual. And I think that's something that I was brought up as a kid. Okay, you know, my parents were very much about stand up on your own two feet, you go out and get a job. This is, you know, and and and the whole family's been like that. We've all all of us have worked, we've always at different levels as well, um different experiences. But that again, as a as a as a you know, my immediate family plus my extended family has always had that kind of view. So we're of we're of that culture, that ilk, if you like. And I and I guess what I would just say is each person must be different about what they feel is security to them. Sometimes it might be a safe place to live or just surrounded by friends or whatever, and not worry too much about money, but true. Money, money does talk.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I think that's the thing. Money does talk, yeah. Money does make it all go around. It really does, because it's what our society lives on, you know. Like you can't, you it would be nice to be this nomad when I went to Portugal in Lagos. There were a few of them that live there in the mountains, in the forests, and in the caves. But how comfortable can you potentially be? You know, like we're not Homo sapiens anymore. We've we've developed and evolved. So yeah, I I definitely agree with that. And I I really um I think it's I don't know, what would you say? Do you think it's easier to have that kind of family that has that mindset of stand on your own defeats, come on? Like it's a real world out there, you need to build, you need to do something with yourself, then maybe a little bit of more of a different family, like the stereotype of having a super, super wealthy family and the child doesn't have to work too hard because mom and dad's always throwing money at it.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

I I fairly think that families that have lots and lots of money, a lot of the time the kids don't turn out well because they I don't think they value money. Um, and you know, you see lots of famous people talking about um how well their kids have done versus families that have been spoiled. I think it's just you kind of need to know what it's like to be hard up. You kind of need to think to yourself, I can't afford that, or I can't live in that nice place. And if you just continually get things given, you you don't have that fire. And also, this is the other bit is that some people don't need materialistic things, some people don't need brand new clothes, they're happy to buy vintage clothes or whatever. Everyone is different, but I do think that if you if you don't value, and it's and maybe even at this point it's not money, if you don't value nature, or you don't value going for a walk, or you don't value friends, yeah, you what what what is it? And and everything you have to work at, and I think that's what again is real to me is really important. I think it's you know, nothing if you just if you just get given everything, I think it's just I don't think it's a good it's like a it's like a spoiled spoilt child, isn't it? You you the child that has everything, has every tie, is possibly not a nice child to know. Yeah that's that's the kind of thing, you know, your friends as kids, you know, that you know I think like your values are different.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Yeah. I can it's okay. I can write off my my car because my parents was gonna buy me a new one, type of thing. One is driving their grandfather's car and really like shining it up and looking after it. And yeah, I think those those are two different people, people that we live in, yeah. Okay, so I wanted to quickly go back to kind of the freelancing thing because I know that you said that you were obviously within the business, so you just carried on from going what you know and then succeeding within that part. But how do you do does one like from your perspective figure out what actually you're good at and what you want to build on?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, that is quite a tough question because I think that um self-doubt all the time, or you know, I think I'm I think I'm just getting now where I know what I'm good at, and it's again it's taken me 10 years to know that. I think if you were asking me in the in the beginning, um I really like doing presentations and training and talking to people and problem solving and communication is big for me. Um trying to, you know, trying to understand who the audience is, and I and I understood that, but equally, every time I would maybe go and do a presentation or something like that in the early days, I could feel my kneecaps shaking, you know, I could almost feel them wobbling off my knees, you know, it's like that, oh my god, and and you know, saying to people, um, you know, I'm here to talk about this, and thinking, well, what if somebody else knows more than I do? And then then I sort of think you kind of learn that actually I'm passionate about this, and you know, back up with your facts, but and if someone asks you a question and you don't know it, just I don't know, you know, I don't know that, but this is what this is why I'm saying this, or this is why I'm saying that, or yeah, that's great for your opinion. So it has been difficult. Then the other plus that I have had, uh, again, by by a lot of luck and been in the right place at the right time, is that I actually have two um people that work for me. Uh one lady was uh who's working for me now a day a week, um had retired and thought that that's what she wanted to do. And then actually she realized that wasn't what she wanted to do, and she'd had a very high-profile job. So she came to work with me and she loves spreadsheets, she loves data analysis, and that's like I hate spreadsheets and I hate analysing data. So that is like where you know, I say to her, I think this could go on an Excel spreadsheet. She could she's visibly excited, and so it's just so that again is surrounding yourself with the right people or taking advice from the right people, and I think um that's where it I don't ever think of myself as a feminist, but I think you know, I've had a lot of women in my life who've been inspirational, and I've always acknowledged that, and then I hope that I take a bit of that and try and be inspirational to other women, and then when you're inspirational or you talk to other women or you do something, then you get feedback back, which again gives you a sense of directional purpose of yeah, that that's yeah. So I think, yeah, that's what I would just say on on that front. I I'm still discovering what I'm good at, but um it's also what makes you passionate. If you're passionate about something, I think that's what I think. And it and it's like if you can't be bothered and this is so irritating, and I don't want to do this with this person, or this is really stupid, um you don't that's not what you should be doing.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Exactly, and then let it go. Yeah, yeah, I do agree with that. I think something um also what triggered me, which I want to go back on, is what you mentioned is about the feminism part and influencing women. But um the thing that you said about not finding something, I think a lot of depends on which country you are in, I would say. But as a South African, what I've experienced is um it's quite the job market is tough. Like the other day I saw a post on Instagram where a new um mall was opened and then a little restaurant or whatever, and then obviously you need waiters and managers and so forth. There was apparently over hundreds of people standing in the queue just to be interviewed, like having their CD paper with them. So I think it's it depends maybe a little bit how difficult it is to find something that you're really excited about and then making a career out of it. But then I also think it's really important to put in those hours then, right? Like if you're young and you can, or even if not if you're young, I think even if you're in your late 40s, because again, yes, this world has created the stigma of like it's over when you're 30. You know, I had like uh an ex that would tell me that I'm old now, that I'm 30, and I'm like, I feel amazing. What do you mean? Like I can think of the freaking women. Like I feel more powerful than when I felt at 25. And I felt really powerful at 25, you know, because apparently the woman's like um the your brain like it is like fully developed then or something at the age of 25. Um, so like what would you say about that? Like, do you think like just like whatever to society and just put in those hours and find your passion and like leave what you don't enjoy?

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, yeah, I would because I also think that people who say, Oh, you're you're old, it's like, oh, why have you got a problem about age then? Do you feel old? Because I don't feel old. Um I don't tell you how old I am then. If um so um yeah, I just think it's it's easy to say because I'm in a position where I have just had been in the right place at the right time, a bit of luck, been inspired, been this, and it is really hard if you end up working in a restaurant and you really want to do something else and you can't find your way out of it. And the only thing that I I can suggest is is just try to find something that you're passionate about and also accept or allow yourself to accept that this is this, I'm I'm happy with this. This is this is success to me because I think what is success, you know, I think women I I I'll go to the child front thing is that so many women want families and don't have families, and then it's like you know, is is that really what you want? And you know, there is there is life without a family, or there's life with a family, there's life, you know, people say, Oh, this woman, she's fantastic, she's got she's an executive and she does this and she does that. It's like, well, is she really happy? Maybe not, because it's really stressful. Find the things, find the things that are that make make you happy, and then then then everything is special. I mean, I I do have this little little thing that I do do, and it's been born out of sometimes being really sad and depressed. Is I try to go out every day for a walk, something like that, and I always try to find something that's really lovely, beautiful, something that makes me think. And I and it I've sort of got COVID, it started in COVID actually, of you know, hearing a bird sing or something like that, and just thinking, this is what life is, it's lucky to be alive. You know, we're living in a world where you know, you scroll, you're scrolling through, you're looking for that information, you're looking for that. Oh, look at Facebook, oh look at that person doing that, oh look at Instagram, oh, they're having a wonderful holiday. Oh, look there, they're on top of Everest. Oh, wow, wow. Actually, is that really, really what you want to do, or does that really make you happy? Or just literally sitting somewhere that's a favorite place, or being with somebody, something that's a favorite, or whatever, or even if it is just watching TV and looking at social media, it's what makes you look makes you feel content, and I think that's just that's so important. And so many people strike looking for something, and it's like actually sometimes stop looking because sometimes it will find you, I guess it's that sounds very deep and meaningful, doesn't it? But I think that's yeah, yeah, I think just keep it simple. I feel I'm a very simple person. I think I I I I don't feel in any way sophisticated. I don't think I'm I I don't think I'm anything special. I just think I've just found something that I feel passionate about and I've been I've been lucky. And again, this whole thing about being able to surround myself with people who are just ordinary people but are incredibly inspirational in their own right. And that's again, you know, what takes you on this journey of life, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Yeah, the journey of life, and that's again a really good point. I've noted that you said it twice is like surrounding yourself with those type of people. Because as a younger age, you know, when you start making friends, it's the stigma of your parents to tell you, like, you know, what you surround yourself with, and they also pick up the negative vibes to say that that friend's not good, but you don't really listen. If you're that type of typical teenager, um, and you discover it quite late. Most I think people discover it quite late, is you surround yourself with. And I've started um again going back to influencing women, it's something that I've discovered, I find really passionate because I have a lot of energy, even though I look like an extrovert, I'm quite introverted. Um, but in the outside world, I can be super energetic. I think it's quite like high anxiety, maybe. I don't know. Um, but I can draw quite a good amount of attention. And I've been told by males in higher positions that are maybe too much or turned down yourself in that meeting. And I have never like gone and listened to that, but I've gone and done research into why like you are told that, and maybe with myself, and I've reflected quite a lot. And I I've feel like I can maybe mature a little bit, which I think we all do. We grow and we mature, especially if you're like in this big meeting with all these people that are using all these abbreviations, and you're like, what does that word mean? You know? Um, then I want to definitely start with the girls that are nine, eight years younger than me. And I want them to know that you can bring your own chair to the table and influence in that way. So, like, how do you feel like we should do that, you know, with where what you have experienced?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah, I mean, I I I I guess that um yeah, it's really funny on the male front because I've I think that I grew up in a situation where there were, you know, I had brothers, I had you know, very male-dominated male group of friends. And I think that again, it was something that I I don't know, you I I think the biggest issue is is again your comment about, well, somebody told me to quiet down or somebody tell me to do that. It's like that sometimes is not that helpful because it's like, is that because you've got a problem with my behaviour? Is that because I've trodden on your toes? What am I doing? So sometimes I would just I'd maybe take that, but I would take it as not as a negative, but just maybe think about things of okay, so maybe reading the room, reading, you know, how how people are interacting, what is the audience, how's the best way to get across. So, in other words, sometimes actually sitting back and thinking, right, today I'm gonna be I'm gonna be like this because this audience, this group of people are probably terrified of me. You know, that's the other thing. I think women sometimes terrify men, and men just have to react in a certain way. Um but I've had women, I mean, I remember being I was would have been 22 and I was in an office, and the managing director's secretary, so this is how long it is when everyone had secretaries, told me that I wasn't wearing enough makeup and I should wear more makeup. And I was a bit like because I've never really worn much makeup, because because if I put makeup on, I look like I just sits all over my face. So I've never done that, and I was really taken aback, yeah. And it's like so other women do it to to to women, and I just think again, it's more about um you know, really getting into this. So, what actually are you trying to say to me? Is it because I have been really loud, and maybe I should just sort of take note of the audience, or you know, what what was it? What was the pressure point? And just try to get a different, always a different opinion, because it can also work the other way. Somebody could be really quiet and not taking part, or the classic female, and this is definitely me, sitting in a boardroom. I can actually see it now. Uh 10 managers sitting around the table, and I was the only female. So, what did I do? The coffee came in the room, and everyone wanted a coffee. So, what did I do? I stood up and served everybody on my on my own. I just did it, and I would probably do that more than once because I just thought, oh, but I can do this, you know, and it's actually, you know, no, what what were you doing? But again, that was me because I was comfortable doing this, and I wanted everybody to like me, so that's what I was doing. Instead of just sort of sitting back and saying, I'm just gonna get the coffee, does anyone else want one? And then just stopping at the when the third person said coffee, it'd be like, Oh, come on then, guys, come on, have a day. Yeah, but I but I I know that I did things like that because that was me being helpful, yeah. And that and I would say that would be definitely how I would uh you know, in in in in sort of senior meetings, and you know, having to argue for the same money and not getting it and things like that, and and then it is a bit of you know, do you want to be working with these people or can you find something else? But sometimes you have to accept it. I think don't don't get too don't get too hung up on it, is what I would just say. It's just like it's their problem, not your problem, it's their problem. And it and just forge ahead with what's right for me and and not get too because I think it it can screw your mind sometimes with what people say, and then and then it's like, oh, oh wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, or or you know it's a classic, you look fat in that dress, oh god, yeah, I do. You know, it's like no, I don't, you know, well, I do know what I'm saying. That's that's what I think I've learned with age. I definitely wasn't like that when I was 20. I was grown in confidence when I was 30, became became a different person at 40. Um, and now I'm I'm a lot more is that my problem? No, that's not my problem. So I'm not gonna get involved. If if I see a reaction or doing different things, or I'm thinking, even I'm reacting in a way, think about how am I gonna react? I I do think I I there's an expression that people use, you know, take a beat. And I do think recently I've thought, yeah, just take a moment. What read the room? Yeah. Because they're they're struggling, because they don't know what to do, or is it, you know, that's what I don't know, that's kind of I like that.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

I've started, um, I did an introduction course um on psychology because I find human behavior very interesting. Because I also like when you mentioned in the beginning where you like building presentations and giving presentations and communication and everything, like you I felt like you were mentioning everything that I really love at the moment. I've started reading the rumor more aggressively, and I think that's such a really good point. I think it's like being like cognitively aware or cognitive awareness. I think that's such a valuable thing to have, like it's a skill that I think that we all need to maybe like loop into a little bit, you know. Um, and I think um, I don't know if it's true or whatever, but women uh tend to have a little bit more of a um uh what's the word where it's like your third eye or intuition. Yes. Yeah, women are more intuitive creatures than what a man would be. I think maybe because we're a little bit more empathic naturally than what a man would want to be, because men maybe don't put themselves in everyone's shoes all the time as much as a woman does, probably. I don't know. I'm being very sexist, but it's difficult not to be. Um, but yeah, I definitely do agree that reading a room is really important. I I've learned that in tough ways. And think about it, I've really only been I have actually had a situation um because I don't wear a bra because I have really small boobs and it hurts me in my back, you know, like I don't really have to explain myself, but I don't, I don't. And um I had these managers that I was just I just did a little bounce from excitement because I achieved something and I'm just someone that expresses myself like that. And the one manager looked at my boobs bounce, but but I was like, whatever, you know, like it would happen. I would also look down if something jiggled, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And um next thing I have an HR email um wanting to like uh uh to discuss me not wearing a bra. And she was a female, and she went and brought me into a room with these two managers, and I was completely uncomfortable. I had to defend myself to not wear a bra in front of this these two men and a and a female. And I was like, what world am I sitting in? I was in tears. I'm like, I'm I'm 20, I was like 23, 24, like this is wow, this is so embarrassing. Like, everyone here is over the age of 50. And that story has hit me, like it's in the back of my brain. I'm not like triggered by it or whatever, I'm over it, you know, because I'm a very resilient person, but that always hits me in the back of my mind. And I think to myself, like, how many uncomfortable situations have women been in, like for yours, for instance, coming from another woman, telling you to get more makeup? Shell shock is corporate to me. Like, really, shell shock. They should, I think, maybe have like in the last year of your high school, teach you what, show you some real corporate scenarios and be able to teach us a little bit better on how it would be to manage. Because I think all women are struggling a lot, especially from weight to makeup to dress coats to not wearing a bra.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Well, I and I'll say again, shame on her as a HR manager. I think she obviously didn't know how to deal with that, and she should have just said, Well, um, you know, in what way did it offend you, you know, to the guy? What way did it offend you? Well, I felt embarrassed. Okay, well, obviously no one else felt embarrassed and there was nothing else. I think if you for me, sometimes when I see women wearing really, really short skirts or things that are, you know, really expose the body in a workplace, I think, not very comfortable because I think that's that that can make people uncomfortable. But if it's just it's it's it's also a bit about talking to people because in some situations people wouldn't be bothered. I think that I I'm more conscious of that because I'm because I know that if men look and you know they're gonna yeah, yeah, they are they can't help it. They can't help it. No, because that there's this thing about men thinking, you know, and I think it's important. Men and men, women are women. We're not talking about whatever's in between, because obviously there are different people in between, and that's that's cool, that's cool. Yeah, whatever. But men, you know, think about sex all the time, and I I laugh because they do think about it. I mean, I've talked to her, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely think about it, you know, at least once a day, if not more. And I'm thinking, once a day, bloody hell. I'm too busy thinking about something else. I'm just don't think your head. I I never again just not been a feminist. I was never a really girly girl till I had a family, till I had my children, and I started mixing with other women, and you just go, Yeah, wow, this is such a great community to be in. Women, that's how we talk, this is what we do, this is what we think. You know, men are completely different, and I suppose what I just think is women need to stand up for each other, and they just like to say, hey, you know, so so in and whatever found it a bit uncomfortable. I just thought I'd mention it to you because he obviously did, but you know, just so I can mention it to you, then it then you can take that information and just have but to actually then have it in a formal setting. I think, yeah. You got a written warning.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, did you? Yeah, yeah, I got a written warning because I refused to wear it.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

That's outrageous.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

I know, yeah. And it was quite a senior male. So uh in my brain, I actually think it was because I caught that he was doing that. Maybe he thought it would go against him, so he was gonna pull the trigger first. That's how it went in my brain, but it was never discussed honestly again, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I would say that's exactly it. Yeah, that's outrageous. That is not that is nothing.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

I could I could imagine somebody saying, Oh, by the way, just he just felt uncomfortable and he just wanted me to be the intermediary, and then you probably go, okay, then, and you might just you might, I don't know, it's comfortable vibes, and then you move on from it, you know, because someone that can easily move on, you know, like I'm not gonna hop on it, like I remember it, but I'm not gonna dislike you.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

But it's not a written warning. Yeah, that's unbelievable. That is really, really bad. It's not, you know, that is not it's not a warning, it's not anything. It's like uh, yeah, that is just just not not a written warning. Because where does it say in law that anyone has to wear any form of specific clothing? I mean, obviously, we all like to wear clothes, but yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's like um, yeah, no, appalling.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah, I know. I was also very shocked. I was 24. So, yeah, I think that women in the working environment is quite intimidating and scary. And I think that's why it's difficult not to be a feminist or difficult not to be biased and sexist and stuff like that. Judith, I want to ask you what are some good tips that you could give someone trying to start their own thing that hasn't been retrenched or whatever and they just want to start?

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, well, I think I think you've got to be realistically financially and just make sure that you don't get yourself into a corner where you give up too soon. Okay. So I think, you know, what can you live off? How will you live? You know, do just you know, almost do a plan of, well, if this happened, that might happen. If this happened, you know, actually plan it out and think about it. I didn't do any of that because I went from I've got a job to I'm now redundant, now you make the decision are you going to come back to work? And it was very quickly like, well, I could keep my redundancy, so that would be great. And and then I start work. So I almost I finished work, uh I finished work uh just before Christmas, and on the 2nd of January I came back as a consultant. So I had the two weeks off of which I got paid, and then I came back as a consultant. So I have no gap, but I would definitely plan out the scenarios. It's thinking about the strategies, you know. If you think about all the different scenarios and go, yeah, all right, well, if that happened, I'd be covered. You don't have to get too too uh too engrossed in it, but you know, discuss it with a friend, discuss it with a partner, discuss it with, you know, colleagues or whatever about well, you know, if I did this, how long could you survive without getting any work? It's a classic, you know. So for me, I had work, so all I needed to do was do that work, I would get paid. And then I got another job, which meant I was working three days a week instead of two days a week, then I was four days a week and then five days a week, and then that's how it sort of built up. Then I want to take holiday. And I think that was, you know, things, things about being your own boss is I'm gonna take that day off, you know, or I'm not gonna work that day. So those are the kind of things is what do I need to live off? You know, um what what you know, especially in a consultancy world where there's no for me, I'm sitting at home, I've got a laptop, I've got my obviously big screen, cameras, that kind of stuff, but I have very little outgoings. So that again is well, what's it gonna cost you? Are you gonna have to travel and are you gonna get your travel costs paid for you? Can we stop in a hotel? What you know, who do I need any special equipment? You know, what is it? Just think, sit down and have a really good plan and discussion and thought process. Planning is, I think, what I would really advise people to do. I think it's just a you know, just think ahead. What is the scenario of what are the different things? And it doesn't if if you make the choice and go, that is a really risky thing to do, at a massive high risk, but you know what, I really want to do it, but we'll do it then. You're a long time dead. So as long as you're not, you know, you're not gonna be um you know an assassin and you know do something really bad, then uh then you know, that's what I think it's plan it, think it, share it, plan it, think it, share it. I think then then you know it's uh just spending that time in your own head is is really important, I think. Um and then because if you don't plan financially, you could you could end up going, oh, I can't do this, I've got to give it up, and then that that could be worse. Because it could be I want to do this, but I'm gonna be a waitress for two days a week while I get this going. You know, there's all sorts of different solutions. That's maybe not the big best example of witness, but you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah, I understand, yeah. So, like, what do you think like when you're kind of in a big corporate and you've been stuck in that same job position, let's say, for the last six or seven years, um how do you know like when to like say, okay, I have this amount, I have six months' savings, I've planned it. Like, how how do people just let the safety net just go? You know, like the hand in your resignation.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Well, I think some people in you know, senior posts probably just get to a point where they just can't stand it anymore. And and I think that again is the tipping point, is is at which point are you no longer happy? And then you just go. I think that's definitely what I would think. It's because I think for me, being happy is just so important. I mean, I am the original person, I can be I I do get dark days of depression, you know, I don't want to say depression, but I get dark days when I get up and I just think, yeah, oh, you know, this is a hap, you know, and I and I think that it's just so important in life to if you've got your health and you and you can and you've got some choices, I think, I think, I think go for it. And I definitely think women, you know, in every level of management, if you're gonna go it alone and you you you're nervous, there's loads of different organizations or different communities or podcasts or whatever, you know, take it all in and listen and and and yeah. And if you if if yeah, if you're in the executive role and you're not happy, then I'd definitely get out because you've got you've probably got a good pension, you it can, you know, you've probably got some good savings. Yeah, I think you could probably give it. So yeah, would be would be my my big view. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

I love that because to me, I think uh what I've also started realizing is my health. If you have your health, then you can have happiness, you know. And um, I think it should be a little bit more accepted. What you mentioned is to have a bit of an off day, because you cannot be pumping 24-7, especially I think as a woman, which is not like a general topic of conversation, it is at least today, but our hormones fluctuate. You know, like we uh especially like on different age levels, you know. Um, especially like it's something that I've started to realize, you know, the four cycles that we have, and I have it mapped in my calendar so that I can understand when I'm a little bit moody and it's just everything's falling around me, and then I'm like, okay, I'm in this phase of my cycle, I can understand where I'm at, you know, and then maybe withdraw a little bit and essentially like read the room for myself and everyone around me. So yeah, I definitely do think that's important. You're raising very um good tips. Thanks, Judith. I really appreciate that. Everything that I've seen on Instagram, I do definitely think that strategy, being delusional, creating a vision board, whatever you want to call it, it's just planning essentially ahead. You know, typical question that you get in the terrible interviews of oh, so typical interview, um, what do you where do you see yourself in five years? Um, I think that's you should interview yourself, kind of, you know, like reflect and where do you want to be in five years? What are you what are you dreaming of? Like be delusional as possible, and like get excited about it and your brain is just like writing or typing, then that's obviously like your sign, you know. And I think with AI on the rise, being able before Google even answers you, AI, Gemini is answering you, you know. I think even if you maybe don't have the friend or the family or the person, physical person to speak to about it because I don't know, you're not confident or whatever. I definitely think that people can turn to technology and go and Google and read, and like you said, podcasts about what everyone else is doing and how they have done it. Um, I think that's really important. It's just having to put in the time, you know, and prioritizing what is important to you instead of just going like mindlessly into life, and then you're 60 and retired, and then you like who did I live for? Some corporate life, and then thank you for my pension, and now I need to live just this little bit of life where I had this much. It's it's really difficult, Judith. It's really difficult, it's tough to do that.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Oh, I think I think we are the generation of people or or the era of we have fantastic health care overall. If you're in, you know, live in wealthy countries, um, you've got everything you can conceivably need, and that sometimes actually is making it really difficult because I think sometimes the people who have nothing are possibly some of the happiest people in the world. I think so because it's it's simple. And I think you know, the point is is you uh you just have to give yourself a bit of space and time. The one thing I do think for the young today is technology is everywhere, and you know, been bored, being quiet, having chance to you know not not necessarily meditate, but just let your head relax. I think it's just so important, and I think that's what is what is what is missing from people's lives today. Grounding, yeah. And working from home, you know, seriously. You know, I've been I've been on a few calls today, but my whole life is looking at this and looking at a screen. So I think that uh I think that's things that you know, the impact on people is is is a big it's big. It's really big and you're missing that interaction, even with people you don't like. You're missing interaction, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Going to a store. You know, and go and touch the fruit and look at the colours and say hello to the cashier lady, you know, then walk back home if you can, if you have that opportunity to, you know, and listen to all the different types of birds. I think nature is very important. I mean, I've been indoors the whole day, to be honest with you, even though we're going into screen, the sun is shining. But I've made myself such a nice thing on my balcony where I can look at every single little bird. Yeah, in the Netherlands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Look at them, you know, and like listen to them scream and shout at each other. And I have like over 50 plants in my apartment. So I think what what you're saying is very true is to be able to cut away from the screen and just go and be in nature. Yeah, grass with your toes. Did you know? Like, I think it's some ancient history of you know, grounding where it's so important to put your feet into the cooling grass because then there's like these connectors that come through your feet and cool you down, and and also where they say, like, go outside and like acknowledge like hearing the birds and seeing the green and you know, smelling the polluted air, depending on the country that you're in. But yeah, I think that's also really important. It definitely helped me to take the beat, especially so yeah, no, I agree, definitely agree. Yeah, yeah. So, Judith, do you have any technology that you're into at the moment that you feel has benefited you?

SPEAKER_01 45:25

No. I I'm beginning to use AI, um but but only slowly. Um, but I do I am starting to use it more and more, and I'm probably gonna that's one of the things that I'm gonna do as swapsy with somebody. I'm doing some training for them, for them to do training on AI uh with me. So that's I do think I'll will try to use it more, and it will benefit me, particularly writing. And yeah, I've used it a few times where I've been trying to do something and I've put all of the information in and then just said, can you produce this for me? And that's been really helpful. Proposals that can take you four or five hours, you know, you can get something done in 30 minutes. Those are the kinds of things that I I use. I don't other than that, no, I don't use a lot of technology.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

That's really good though. I wish I was the same. I have a lot of technology that I'm using, especially applications, but I guess that's also part of the millennial generation. So, what would you say to your younger self?

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Oh, oh I think I would probably just um say something like have faith in yourself that you know you you will you will achieve, um, and you know, just chill out a bit more. I think I was pretty hyper when I was young. I was always I felt I felt inadequate, I think, when I was younger. I felt um yeah, so I I didn't go to university, and uh probably that was a big chip on my shoulder. And I always felt yeah, you know, when people ask me about my education, I used to mumble, oh yeah, well, I did this, that, and the other, which I did, I did go to college, but I just didn't I didn't go to university. But I think just yeah, just have faith in yourself and that you know, find find again, just find your passion. That is definitely something that I believe in because people it's the feedback people give me. People say you're really passionate on this subject, or you're really passionate, or you're you really you really enjoy this, or something. They talk about that, and I just think, yes, I am, and uh, you know, positive, that positive, you know, just don't feel inadequate, don't think you can't achieve, because she because she can, you just need to give yourself space to do that. And I do see it in everyone, everyone has got ability, it's just you find your own ability, and that's because I just think that I I felt not good where I was when I first started as you know, a woman in business. I yeah, I just felt very inadequate, and I just think I'm very proud of where I am now. So maybe that's what I would be telling my younger self, hey, you will make this. If I had to tell myself at 20, oh, you'll be running your own business and you'll be having conference calls with people in Malaysia at seven o'clock in the morning, and then the minute you get off that call, you're gonna be talking to somebody else. Then someone's gonna ring it up and say, Hey, would you be interested in working with us? Could you possibly just send some notes? I've you know, I've done this by me. Yeah, yeah, sure. And then, you know, get you know, just getting feedback from people saying, Oh, thanks, thank you, that's been really useful to me, or whatever. Yeah, that that's where I am now, and that's why I love what I do, is that I just feel good, I feel good about myself, and maybe that's maybe that's the hardest thing to achieve. And that would be what I would tell my younger self.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

That's amazing. I absolutely love that. Also, I have a triple my shoulder for not studying either. Well, I also did the college thing, but you know, university is the ticket. I mean, I always look at my sister in the that little bit of comparison because she did eight years instead of PhD and plant topology, and she did that for eight years, and I worked for 10. So I do also understand that chip on the shoulder.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

And it's not the route to success either, because I know that it's about you again, it's about your ability, but you need to get over that. And that took me through it's it's it's taken me about 40 years, but I'm there now. I'm over it.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

I have 10, I have nine years left, so but definitely um, yeah, I'm the same.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

I've got two elder siblings who are incredibly intelligent, been to university, yeah, fantastically uh, you know, got fantastic jobs, done fantastic things. Yeah, but but they they they always say it back to me don't look at yourself, look what you've achieved. I know isn't it amazing?

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Okay, because I think like maybe the thing that you've achieved was that happiness and to be able to like not even knowing that you wanted to be your own boss, but sitting in your own house, doing your own thing. It's nice, it's a good achievement.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Yeah, it's very freeing. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you for your time, Judith. You're super awesome to have to. I hope to stay connected to you. I also would love to talk to you more about the woman topics, yeah. Um to learn from you. Yeah. I love learning from women like you. It's yeah, an amazing dream to have musers. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Yeah, no worries, no worries. Uh and yeah, please, please do stay in touch.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Amazing. Well, thank you for your time, Judah. Chat later.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

Bye, bye, bye.